BeyondSaaS Transcript
Jason Niedle
We’re live, we’ll cut the beginning real fast. Today we’re talking with Christina Crute, VP of Marketing and Empathic, I’m sorry, real fast. Empathic AI or Empathic? Okay, you don’t use the AI, okay. Take two. Today we’re talking with Christina Crute, VP of Marketing and Empathic about strategic growth in small marketing teams and particularly how AI can help. I’ll do my intro real fast and then yours and then we’ll chat.
Kristina Kroot
Disempathic. Yeah.
Sounds good.
Jason Niedle
Welcome to Beyond SaaS. I’m Jason Nidl, founder of Tethos. We’re a growth agency and we’ve been accelerating tech company growth through strategy, branding, lead gen and conversion with a 20 year track record of success. If you’re looking to grow, check out tethos.com slash podcast for our paper on hyper growth tactics compiled from interviews with tech executives like Christina. Better yet, just drop growth in the comments and I will, this is why I love editing. Better yet, drop the word growth in the comments and I’ll DM you.
Today, I’m super excited to explore tech company growth with Christina Crute. She is the VP of marketing of Empathic, which is expanding human understanding and life sciences and healthcare using AI-powered conversation analytics. And I really want to hear how this works. They claim to enhance human accuracy by seven times, which is mind-blowing. Christina is a strategic guide who’s, man, I am, it’s like too early for me here.
Kristina Kroot
I got it, I’m sorry.
Jason Niedle
Actually,
I usually don’t start them till like two hours from now, but that is not a good excuse. Christina is a strategic guide. God, I’m sorry. Christina is a strategic guide who thrives on research and critical thinking to help others towards ethical solutions and change. And I also hear she’s an amazing architectural photographer. So welcome Christina.
Kristina Kroot
I’m watching.
It’s okay, don’t worry.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
Jason Niedle
Hey, before I forget, do you have a golden nugget by chance today?
Kristina Kroot
Sure. So the golden nugget I’m going to discuss today is really going to be about when using AI to really use it effectively and just the understanding of it still needs that human oversight behind it and not just taking it as it is.
Jason Niedle
for sure. Have you played around with the new deep research in chat GBT?
Kristina Kroot
Actually I haven’t and I’m trying to get access to it.
Jason Niedle
It has been blowing my mind lately. I
did, it did like a 20 page report for me yesterday that was so well done. And yes, you still have to go through there and figure out what makes sense and what doesn’t make sense. And like the human part matters. But I think on the show a lot, we’ve been exploring like what’s the best for the human to be doing and what’s the best for the AI to be doing. Do you have any like vibe around that? Like where do think the human touch needs to be applied?
Kristina Kroot
Okay.
Sure, so if it helps, can like walk through a little bit of the process that I do when using it, especially from a marketing point. I tend to, I guess because I grew up a little old school and like writing all my notes down, I still have the habit of either writing or typing all my notes out, whether it’s making copy for a marketing newsletter or doing some market research. So I tend to write all of my information down really, again, just in a really rough format and take it and say like, hey, here’s the information, you know,
Jason Niedle
Sure, yeah.
Kristina Kroot
create a really heavy input. Because I think that’s also what’s important is people don’t realize when you’re trying to do your prompt, it has to be really specific, right? So the more specific you are, the better the output’s going to be from AI. So I try to be very specific in my prompt, type it in, it’s like, hey, this what I’m looking to do, help me around this. For example, if doing a marketing newsletter, I’ll have it come through, I’ll check it and say, OK, I need to make some adjustments on this because it’s not
taking the brand voice and putting that in, right? So adjusting for the brand voice or because I do use AI pretty frequently. I know there’s a lot of words it tends to use pretty repeatedly. So I’ll go through and say like, know what?
I see this all the time, just generally across marketing company, just in marketing in general, let’s just take this out and replace wording. So again, that’s where I try to re-bring in the human oversight and say, okay, either the brand voice isn’t there, we need to make adjustments for that, or if doing research, research is important because it could provide you links, but you’ll go and the link is broken or it doesn’t work, or it’s actually not, I’ve been given fake research. So it’s like, okay, let’s confirm and make sure and validate even the research it’s providing you.
Jason Niedle
no.
Kristina Kroot
Again, it still needs the human oversight for sure.
Jason Niedle
For sure. I want to know about Empathic, but I want to diverge for just a second. It’s been difficult to find women in tech for the podcast. And I’m a little embarrassed for me, but happy for you. You’re our second only on the show. Yes, and I’m glad. But why is that? And what needs to change in tech to have more women in leadership?
Kristina Kroot
That’s exciting. Well, exciting for me. Thank you.
Sure. Tech has been very interesting. I’ve been in tech for quite some time. When I started out, there was one company I worked for. I was the only woman in the company. And it was not in a leadership role, too. So it was much more of a support role. But tech, think it comes first down to investments. Where are the investments occurring? And it’s much more harder. We know.
based on research for women to get funding from investors. So it’s really starting there and having investors say, hey, there’s some really amazing women-led businesses. Empathic is one of them. It’s women-founded, women-led, which is really awesome. So women who are running these companies have to work, I think, even harder to try and get investments in their company to say. I think because there isn’t just
as much investment in women-focused led companies, we see that then trickles down into leadership roles and so on.
Jason Niedle
That’s such a great point. so our first woman was Anushukla, who was episode 22, which hasn’t come out yet as we’re recording this one. And she is a VC in a fund that funds woman-led organizations. So I think that’s actually a really interesting point and critical to everything. So I appreciate that. Tell me a little bit about Empathic.
Kristina Kroot
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Sure. So as you briefly mentioned, Empathic is a company where we have a platform that primarily uses AI, but also still has a human oversight aspect to it, where we take conversational and contextual data and blend it with our human insights to then deliver AI analytics back to the customer. And we have various solutions. So for example, we…
work pretty often in psychedelic clinical trials. So we’re supporting them through fidelity monitoring, which is essentially saying like, hey, you know, we get this data and making sure.
For example, the therapist or maybe is providing the therapeutic context in a right form. Like that would be one example. And then they would receive the information back in real time with real time suggestions and actual analytics that they can use to then help them move the clinical trial forward. Another way is
Jason Niedle
And that’s happening in
real time. Wow, that’s cool.
Kristina Kroot
Yeah, it can happen in real time, which is awesome. how
it works is the client would upload the conversation. So usually in text, audio, or video form, you would upload the conversation from there. It would go through the AI system, and then it would input all the analytics from there. So as soon as you upload it, you get the information. It works really quickly, which is great.
Jason Niedle
And I imagine security and HIPAA is fun for you.
Kristina Kroot
Yes,
that is all we are very, very secure. have the HIPAA, we follow GDPR, we are SOC 2 type 2 complaint. So we’re going through all the motions and making sure we are secure and the patient’s privacy is always important.
Jason Niedle
Yeah. So what stage would you say Empathica is in? Are you guys start up mid-stage? Where are you at? Awesome.
Kristina Kroot
We are a startup.
Yeah, so we’re a startup, but it’s a really great time to be in this space, especially with the booming of AI, right? So essentially, you’re finding AI in everything. But what’s really exciting about what we do is that we’re not a gen AI company, right? So you see a lot of companies are generative AI, but our AI is built off of scientifically validated information. We have some really amazing scientists, psychologists who work at the
who are creating these products.
Jason Niedle
Wow.
And I think that when you’re not gen I, you have fewer or none, no hallucinations and there’s other.
Kristina Kroot
Yeah, so we watch out for, you know, we’re very careful in building our product and then what’s being input, but then also the outputs that are coming out from it.
Jason Niedle
Absolutely. So your title is VP of Marketing. What do you consider like the heart and the core of that role?
Kristina Kroot
Ooh, the heart and the core, that is an interesting question. my gosh, for the company here, mean, really it’s just trying to, know, being a startup, I think one of the hardest things right now is just getting our company out there. So for me, that’s like, it’s taking that. So taking what we have been creating and just like getting it out to everybody.
Jason Niedle
How are you doing that? What ways are you
reaching out?
Kristina Kroot
So in various ways, you know, the life science and healthcare industry are very tough, right? Because of course it’s, you know, there’s a lot of nuance and nuances behind it. You know, patient safety is very important. So it’s really, let’s see, I may have to edit this one out. So let me figure out how I want to word this quickly. Sorry.
Right, so getting it out there to the world. So whether it’s through social media, a lot of word of mouth, we have some really great clients that we’re working with that we’re able to have use cases that we’re able to build around it and sharing that with upcoming, you know, hopefully potential clients. So that’s been like a really big factor in just trying to really reach out to potential customers and sharing the knowledge and base that we’ve already created with them.
Jason Niedle
What’s kind of your growth theory, meaning like I look at things and say, okay, I have to have a strategy and know what’s going on, then I have to fill my top of funnel and then I have to reduce friction in that funnel. it’s kind of those are my three things that I talk about. But everybody has like a different way of looking at that. Do you have like a theory or a path that you follow?
Kristina Kroot
Sure, so growth for us is in a very interesting stage right now because our, sorry, our sales is mostly really founder led. So the focus isn’t really for me to build, know, to really focus on.
you know, that top of funnel and pushing out, you know, constantly pushing out stuff. It’s rather being really strategic in what we’re creating and then working very closely with the executives to say, okay, hey, we’re going to the, you know, we’re reaching out to these specific clients. This is what’s working with, this is what’s not. And then being very strategic and nimble and making those adjustments, right? Like it’s, you know, times change pretty quickly and it’s gotta say, okay, where it’s not working, what’s not working. We need to make the changes and like, let’s make it now. I hope that answered your question.
Jason Niedle
Yeah, well, I will. The other question, the broad question, guess, so that does answer a question. The broad question I think would be like, what’s, is there a high level when you’re thinking about the marketing process, which kind of your high level look at it.
Kristina Kroot
Okay, good. Sure.
Yeah, my high level.
Jason Niedle
and I’m throwing random questions at you today.
Kristina Kroot
No,
it’s fine. I know that’s what I like, I to think of these. wasn’t like prepared for questions like this. Okay, so I’m looking at my high level marketing. So I would say when looking at marketing from the high level point in our company, it comes down to really for us is like, who is our customer, right? And I think that’s really for any, any company, you’re to look at who’s your customer. And then going after that customer, but being strategic about it, right? Because it’s very easy, especially in marketing to just create stuff and it never be used or be a waste of time. So really trying to be smart.
Jason Niedle
Mm-hmm.
Kristina Kroot
in being smart and going after those customers. And really what I do from a marketing standpoint is I really listen to the calls our sales members are having because I really want to hear how they’re selling what we’re currently building, but also see the potential customer’s reaction to it, right? Because then that, for me, I can say, you know what, that was a point that worked.
and what’s not working and able to adjust from there. So really just looking at our customers is really the standpoint that I take.
Jason Niedle
feel like that point can’t be overstated enough. Like so many CEOs are out there and they’re just talking and talking and talking, but how many times do they go in and listen to their sales reps and hear both sides and hear what’s happening and hear like, no, they get this objection all the time or a variation of this objection all the time. Or your reps are saying one thing and then you’re out there saying something else. And I see that all the time where there’s like a disconnect between the front of house and then the reality of what’s going on. So I think that’s really critical that you’re actually in there in the trenches looking at everything.
Kristina Kroot
Yeah.
I think what will be challenging, you know, and I see in all my years of marketing, whether I worked at big companies or smaller companies, that’s common. It’s a very common problem across the board. And I think what’s going to be a challenge is as the company continues to grow is how can we…
keep that continuing, right? Because that’s going to be hard. Like I’m not going be able to sit in thousands of calls once we get there, which would be great, right? But I won’t be able to do that because I need to be focusing on other things. Then that’s where AI comes in handy, right? So that essentially, right, you have the summary. mean, it’s great in the fact that you get these summaries. You still miss out on the potential seeing visual reactions of clients, right? Because just because they say something doesn’t necessarily mean based off their body language or how they’re presented.
Jason Niedle
Get some good summaries.
Kristina Kroot
yourself, it could be completely different. So there may be those nuances you miss, but I think just remaining close to that process will be important even as we grow.
Jason Niedle
Yeah, and some data is better than none and you can still jump in a random call here and there, right? Yeah. So in terms of growth, like what are your favorite metrics for what you’re doing and then what are your goals for this year?
Kristina Kroot
Sure, exactly.
Sure, so that’s also interesting too, because we’ve been kind of, because I’m not sales, right now our growth isn’t focused on me getting in sales directly, right? So that’s a little bit harder of question. So let me think about this, my metrics, what would be my metrics? Because we also just did a big overhaul, so I need to actually go in and do these adjustments.
Jason Niedle
I know in some ways it’s an easy question because every company’s like, the money, right? But it’s not always that simple.
Kristina Kroot
Right? it’s, right, grow the money, right? It’s not.
So, right, so, right. So for me, that is a difficult question because it’s, right, every company wants to be, grow that money and where is that coming from? But because we are so sales focused, really the biggest metric for me is like, how is our sales enablement being utilized?
and how are customers reacting to it, right? So those are be my biggest metrics, because that’s really the biggest marketing assets we’re using right now is all that sales enablement. So how is that being used? Is it being used effectively? Is it, you know, creating the wants from the customer to say like, hey, we wanna work with you? So I guess that would be the metric.
Jason Niedle
How do you,
yeah, and how do you judge that? How are you?
Kristina Kroot
Right, so it’s almost like taking a customer sentiment thing, right? Seeing like, hey, we created this asset, sales used it across the board here, creating what percentage it was used by, and then seeing customers say, yes, it was effective. And almost saying like, OK, was it effective or not? And creating that measurement of yes, it was and no, it wasn’t, and then determining what’s going to be the basis of, let’s say our threshold is like, it’s 85 % effective. That’s great. Let’s move with it.
Jason Niedle
Right? So I always like to look at like constraints and what’s constraining you guys from growing. So if you had some magic wand and you could change one thing that’s holding back growth, like what would you change?
Kristina Kroot
Can I say climate? No. Because that’s actually our big, that’s actually our biggest one is like, you know, essentially what’s been happening in the clinical trial space and everything else right now. So that’s kind of been like a big pivot for us, but I don’t think.
Jason Niedle
Yeah, well, I’m here, yeah.
have
the times been really destructive of clinical trials.
Kristina Kroot
Yeah, a little bit, you know, as, and again, I don’t know what we’ll be cut and we’ll be, but yeah, so clinical trials, as we’re aware, a lot of funding has been removed from NIH and other research areas. And we do a lot of research here through government funded programs, but then we also do work with a lot of clients in the clinical trial space. So although it’s been a challenge, we’ve been able to…
really sit back and say, again, it’s like going back into startup mode, where else can we work? What else are the spaces in healthcare and life sciences are we actually not hitting that could be a really good space to jump in, you know, to go into? So yeah, let me think of that.
Jason Niedle
So that’s an interesting
point, right? If you have a vertical and the vertical is being affected by things beyond your control, then it’s time to look at other verticals where you might have some control.
Kristina Kroot
Exactly. that’s the stage we’re at right now, right? So saying like, okay, we’re still, we’re not going to completely just abandon the current vertical that we’re in, right? Especially in this clinical trial space, because it is really important to continue this and have, you know, and for clinical trials become more and more effective. But as we’re seeing the issues with funding for, you know,
in what’s going on, we had to say yes, like what are some other areas in similar verticals that will work for us that we can still reach into that may not be as impacted by what’s happening.
Jason Niedle
Yeah, really interesting. I had a venture capitalist on and he was talking about that segmentation and how important it is to find look-alike segments. And he was very analytical and mathematical, but the way that the look-alike segments may not look exactly like healthcare, but they have similarities that work for what your product and what you’re doing.
Kristina Kroot
Right.
Exactly. know, for example, we, don’t know if you know much about Empathic, but it started off, you know, working more in the HR sales SaaS, like coaching aspect. And it’s almost like taking another 180 again, where we’re looking back into those verticals, but more in the healthcare, you know, in the healthcare spaces, not necessarily going, you know, straight back into HR sales. Because a lot of them, like Gen I is enough for us, right? But in healthcare, it’s not. Healthcare still needs
Jason Niedle
Hmm.
Kristina Kroot
more nuanced AI if they’re going to be working with it. And they have to be careful, right? Because you get into patient safety, patient information, making sure their information is being redacted if it’s being put into AI. And there’s just so much more that goes into it in those spaces than just saying, OK, here, I’m just going to throw it into a chat GBT. Nor safety, exactly.
Jason Niedle
Yeah, chat GPT is not exactly known for accuracy nor safety, right?
Yeah. I love to look and see what’s working or not working and share that with our audience. Is there anything that you’re doing out there like top of funnel or changing things that has surprised you in that, A, it’s not working anymore or B, it’s working better than you thought?
Kristina Kroot
Sure, what’s working for us, again, because we are so focused, it’s very founder-led sales, or very top sales, really what’s working for us is really just being very specific with the marketing that we’re provided. So as I mentioned before, a lot of the sales enablement materials, but again, not just creating to create, being there and saying, what…
What is the, what do we want to do with this, right? Who’s the client, who is the customer we’re trying to reach? What does that look like? Why, why are we doing this? Does that make sense for what we’re doing? So being very strategic and mindful in the sales and even materials we’re providing. And just really continuing those conversations. Like a lot of it’s like, you know, we’re building these conversations behind and working with them and making sure we’re supporting potential customers and our current customers in any way we can.
Jason Niedle
And when you say sales enablement, you doing like thought leadership or podcasts or white papers or cold emails or like what actual things are you doing?
Kristina Kroot
Sure.
Yeah, when
actual things are working, from this, like sales is definitely doing cold emails, which has been actually really working great. But in those cold emails, they’re providing assets that we’ve created, such as the case studies we have created, right? So case studies are great because it’s such a great way to say, hey, we’ve done this research, here are the results from that. And it’s like a really quick.
easy handoff from the site like, this is really cool. We’ll save this for later. We can read it. We’ll come back to you kind of thing. But it gives us another step to say, OK, they loved it. Let’s reach back out, find out more, and just to continue those conversations on.
Sorry, excuse me. We do thought leadership, which has also been really helpful in sharing on LinkedIn. Actually, LinkedIn is such a great place, especially for B2B, right? So I don’t have to drown this out, but I think most people, especially if you’re working in B2B space, LinkedIn is just a really great resource all around. When you’re trying to reach out to other potential customers or just trying to become a thought leader and growing that space and getting the company and your
Jason Niedle
Mm-hmm.
Kristina Kroot
information out there.
Jason Niedle
It’s funny that you talk about case studies and to me that’s like crucial and critical as a marketer. And then I realize we’re on episode 24 here I think and no one’s brought up case studies and I’m like, why it’s so important because you have to have that, A, you have to show that vertical like how does this work and they want the concreteness of it and you have to show them, hey, it’s worked for someone else so now you have the trust on it all.
Kristina Kroot
Okay.
Exactly.
Jason Niedle
And it’s it’s such a critical step and no one’s
actually talking about it, which is quite interesting to me.
Kristina Kroot
I do find that interesting because I think, you know, and I don’t know if that’s maybe I was going to say maybe it’s naturally because of the space that I’m in because it is very science backed, right? But again, it has to be everywhere because I’ve worked in telecom and I’ve worked in, you know, B2C and CPG goods. And even then we still had case studies and I have just always been a big proponent of case studies. I don’t know if that’s like an old school thing. Maybe. I don’t know. But just, you know, case studies have been always really a great
Jason Niedle
But I think it’s everywhere.
Kristina Kroot
easy, effective way to say like, hey, this works. And like, if you make it visually, if you make it visually appealing, right, and then are very specific and point to the copy where it’s easy to read the information over quickly, like, it’s just such an easy thing to pass along that really requires such a minimal lift. I didn’t use anywhere emails, presentations, LinkedIn, you know, turning it into a blog post, there’s various ways that you can take that use case and put it essentially blast it wherever you need to. Yeah.
Jason Niedle
Hunterbrook.
Right? 100%.
Is there any lead gen that’s like your favorite toy right now? Something that’s kind of bringing people in and you’re like, ooh, I love this.
Kristina Kroot
Interesting.
It’s again, it’s so really we have the regular like contact us call out buttons on our website But you know, we try to be a little bit specific on but that’s actually really done really well for us You know, we’re very mindful and specific on what we do and what we say But you know that that has helped really bring in some interest And again just sharing the use cases around, you know We if we send it to one client some clients have passed it on to others that have helped generate that interest too. So, you know
It’s almost like, although I mentioned, you know, the specifics in regarding use cases and actual materials, customer relationships that you currently have are also important because in our space, in the healthcare life, a lot of people know each other, right? At various companies. So if we are built this amazing relationship with one client and then they tell another client, you have like that word of mouth that starts passing along too. That’s, I think that’s really good for us.
Jason Niedle
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Do you ask a lot of people, how, ask me, like how do we facilitate that? Do you guys have a way to facilitate word of mouth?
Kristina Kroot
I mean, usually, no, I mean, we probably, I think we’re just very lucky in a sense that yes, we’ve had some really great people in this space who work in our company and then who also are working with the clients. We do have some partnerships with clients where we’re working with them and they’re bringing clients, so we’re working kind of like that.
I don’t want to say it’s like a third party thing, but you know, kind of working together in these various partnership relationships. But really it’s just making sure, you know, we’re maintaining communication, having strategy behind that. Cause we do, we have it where, okay, if we’re doing this partner marketing strategy, it’s working together. Here’s what we’re looking to do together and making sure we have that in a place to stay. then making sure, and having the client have access to the information they need easily. Right? Cause that’s the thing it’s like, you can give, you know, I remember being on the other end.
Jason Niedle
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kristina Kroot
of something like this and would be bombarded with tons of information like this is great but like what does that mean for us? Like what are these few easy things I can just give the takeaway and then take that with me, right? So not just bombarding them with everything about the company and everything you do but what is the working relationship with them that they can then help use to take, you know, help bring, right? Like one pagers, right?
Jason Niedle
something simple and hyper relevant that they could pass along.
totally good old school stuff,
Kristina Kroot
Go to one pager.
That’s what I mean. Yes, we live in such a technology driven world, an AI driven world, but if you go back to it, a lot of things, especially in the B2B space, and for us, it’s kind of old school, right? Use cases, kind of old school, one pagers, kind of old school, but you know what? They’re super effective. There’s nothing wrong with it. They’re still super effective and they work really well for us.
Jason Niedle
Yeah.
I totally wanted to talk with you about AI, but I think we’re almost running out of time with you here. The world feels pretty chaotic. mean, you’re funding and your niche is getting cut here and there, and there’s all sorts of chaos in the world, and tariffs are just taking effect tomorrow as we tape this. What do you see as marketing trends? How are you going to navigate this? What do you see that you need to do differently ahead?
Kristina Kroot
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Sure, you know, for me, what I need to do different, it’s just really making sure that I remain, what’s the word I’m thinking of?
I almost want like I’m remaining flexible. Okay, that’s right. So right. So for me, I think remaining flexible is going to be really important in these times because again, especially because for example, we’re a startup, we have to change rather quickly and I can’t be so rigid and what we’re doing now, I have to make sure I’m remaining flexible that like, hey, we got to change then we got to do that and not just be like, no, this is not going to you know, no, I can’t do this. It’s it’s just, you know, I’m being too rigid, you have to be flexible. And whether you’re in a startup or a big company,
that’s going to have to really be really top for anybody, especially in what’s happening right now across the climate.
Jason Niedle
Christina, this was really interesting. Where can our audience find you?
Kristina Kroot
Thank you. You can find me at www.empathetic.ai. I’m also on LinkedIn, so you’re happy to search my name. It’s spelled here, so Christina Crute is very easy.
Jason Niedle
And that’s mpathic.ai for listeners. So no E in the beginning, mp, no, no, he didn’t. I’m just spelling it for the reader. So mpathic.ai, empathic.ai, and it’s Christina Crute, both with Ks. Christina, thank you so much for being on Beyond Sass. For leaders in mid-stage tech looking to grow, we drop episodes twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And you can find me, jasonneidl at tethos.com. That’s t-e-t-h-o-s.com, where you can grab a free report on how
to grow your company. And of course, drop any questions or comments for future guests or feedback below. We love that. Until next time, this is Beyond SAS. Christina, thank you so much. Let me push stop here.
Kristina Kroot
Thank you so much, Ape Files.
