In this episode of Beyond SaaS, Jason Niedle interviews Maria Greicer, Vice President of Partnerships at Keymakr and Keylabs.ai. They discuss the importance of data in AI solutions, the challenges women face in the tech industry, and the innovative services provided by Keymakr and Keylabs. Maria shares insights on defining growth, strategies for client engagement through conferences, and the constraints of internal operations. The conversation also touches on the future of AI and its potential to enhance human life.
Takeaways
- Data is crucial for machine learning and AI solutions.
- Women are underrepresented in tech, especially in sales roles.
- Building relationships is key in the tech industry.
- Growth can be defined in various ways, not just revenue.
- Scaling too quickly can be dangerous for companies.
- Conferences provide valuable networking opportunities.
- AI technology is evolving to enhance human life.
- Understanding client needs is essential for service delivery.
- Planning for uncertainty in revenue is critical.
Sound Bites
“It’s all about the data.”
“Human connection is irreplaceable.”
“Women in tech sales are underrepresented.”
BeyondSaaS Transcript
Jason Niedle (00:00)
Today we’re talking with Maria Greicer, Vice President of Partnerships at Keymakr and Keylabs.ai about how it’s all about the data.
Welcome listeners Beyond SaaS. I’m Jason Niedle, and I’m the founder of Tethos and we solve growth problems for tech companies through strategy design, email campaigns, educational campaigns and more.
Today I’m really excited to talk to Maria. She is, as I mentioned, the VP of partnerships and these are two related organizations. Keymakr is a nearly decade old data annotation company that provides high quality training data solutions. Think video annotations and object classifications and even where needed they’ve created data and images to supply information. They basically help computers understand the data that they’re getting.
And Keylabs.ai is their newest venture. It’s a one-of-a-kind platform that allows machine learning teams to actually manage their enterprise-level annotation projects. So you have the data solutions company and you have the platform side. Maria, I think you’re a really intriguing guest. You recently served as a CEO of an AI-powered content curator. At Keymakr, You’re working with enterprise clients on these really complex technical solutions. And you have this cool background in entrepreneurial management, including
in the military in an emergency care unit literally making life or death decisions. So I’m really curious to hear what you have to say about growth here. So thank you.
Maria Greicer (01:25)
Okay, thank you so much for the introduction.
Jason Niedle (01:27)
Do you have a quick tip for our listeners?
Maria Greicer (01:29)
So my favorite book actually it was recommended to me by one of the top executives in Israel tech industry, Shai Schiller. He recommended this book maybe 12 years ago or so. It’s called The Strategic Selling by Robert Miller.
Jason Niedle (01:47)
Mm.
Maria Greicer (01:48)
I would say that’s an old book, but that’s one book that never gets old. And I really learned a lot from it. it’s definitely worth a read for anyone who’s dealing with growth, companies and sales.
Jason Niedle (02:01)
Strategic Selling by Robert Miller. That’s perfect. So it’s been difficult to find women in tech to get on the podcast. Why do you think that is and what needs to change?
Maria Greicer (02:11)
That’s a very good question. I find it interesting too. There’s not that many women in tech for some reason. From my observation, there are a few reasons for it. First, tech always has been an industry more driven by men. So technology, think of development. When people think of technology, they think, okay, we need to be developers.
We need to be to understand technology, like to understand that deep down how it works. it’s kind of scary. So maybe like my thinking is like for women, the perception is okay. It’s like, it’s too complicated. I don’t want to get into this. Like I need to be, I would say it’s like a totally wrong concept. Like I need to be a good developer in order to be in tech. Disclaimer: I don’t know how to code.
Jason Niedle (02:59)
Mm.
Maria Greicer (03:02)
⁓ I don’t want to, it’s not relevant to anything that I do. And it’s not relevant to technology. It’s like a simple, it’s like, do you know how to use a hammer in order to build a house? You don’t need to, right?
Jason Niedle (03:02)
haha
Right, does the architect need to know how to use the hammer? Not necessarily.
Maria Greicer (03:19)
Exactly,
exactly. It’s the same thing. think this this concept has been around for a while. That’s one. Second, it’s I don’t know. It’s just like a perception and they see it everywhere. I’ve worked globally like I’m originally from Israel. So I started my career in Israel and lived in Europe. I live in the United States right now. I’m in Canada. So everywhere I say it’s the same like women are in a way encouraged, but they’re not that many women.
who are there or want or see themselves in tech. And I think it should really change. Tech is amazing. And I, as a woman, think we should, like we have so much to contribute and it’s like a little bit different thinking and approach in more places in tech. It definitely helps.
Jason Niedle (04:03)
It’s funny…
I’ve met so many men in tech who say, it’s not just tech, it’s about relationships. And yet I’ve also met so many men in tech who are not very good at relationships.
Maria Greicer (04:12)
Actually it is. I would say everything,
well, depends what you do, but let’s say management roles, it’s everything about relationships. Usually for women, it’s like a natural thing to develop relationships and to understand people, to be more, to understand emotions and understand what’s driving people. So it’s actually, it’s a great thing. think women definitely have advantage
Jason Niedle (04:29)
Mm-hmm.
Maria Greicer (04:35)
in tech industry and it should be used.
Jason Niedle (04:37)
Hey, it’s Jason with a 10 second note from our sponsor, Tethos. I wanted to offer you our Hypergrowth Playbook. It’s a free guide that I put together, a compilation of our first 20 or so episodes of learning from the show, which includes book recommendations, golden nuggets, and the amazing learnings from all these tech leaders. Simple to get it, just drop the word GROWTH in the comments and I’ll send it to you, or head on over to tethos.com/playbook and that’s T-E-T-H-O-S dot com slash playbook, and you’ll have it right there. All right, back to our episode.
Jason Niedle (05:06)
I’ve had several guests also say that with AI that raises this new threshold of everything has to be better than the AI and where will we be better as humans than AI comes with relationships and emotions, right? So that should really bring more women into the field hopefully.
Maria Greicer (05:18)
Yep,
sounds like great.
Jason Niedle (05:22)
So tell me a little bit about Keymakr and KeyLabs.
Maria Greicer (05:25)
Okay, so Keymakr and Keylabs. We started from Keymakr. Keymakr is a data annotation company. So we create training data for machine learning models. So it’s a very niche thing to do, I would say. We work only with visual data. So images, videos, and I would say the most interesting thing for me, that’s unique,
in this business is that we get to deal with many, many different clients from literally every industry that’s out there. We work with companies like Intel and General Electric and automotive suppliers, automotive manufacturers, and everybody creates something different.
The use case, the product is different, but the building block of training the AI is the same. How you train the AI, like also like building blocks, the training data, how you create this training data is the same technique that applies to everybody. So we are basically a supplier of this technique, a supplier of this building block that creates custom training to specific use cases.
So for example, autonomous driving cars, we annotate videos for lane recognition, traffic sign recognition, pedestrian behavior prediction, in cabin monitoring, by the way, it’s a new thing. And I don’t know if you know, like new cars will have cameras not only facing outside, but also inside. You’ll have the camera looking at you, tracking your eyes, where you’re looking, your facial expressions,
Jason Niedle (06:51)
Hmm.
Maria Greicer (07:01)
and then deciding are you tired, are you distracted, are you looking back at your kids and they’re distracting you. So it’s more like a driving safety application. Also for understanding where to place important controls in the vehicle. So where you get to look most, what’s like your most like easy points to look at. And based on that, right now it’s a new technology that’s being developed.
Jason Niedle (07:18)
⁓
interesting. Yeah.
That’s
cool.
Maria Greicer (07:26)
Based
on that, the new cars that will hit the market in two years, three years from now will not have the controls of the same spot that they have right now. It will be more strategically placed for functions that you actually need that are easy to monitor and easy to reach. So many different use cases. So I would say that for me, it’s the most exciting part about our company, our business, that we get exposed to all these different new AI applications.
Jason Niedle (07:35)
Mm-hmm.
love that, yeah.
Maria Greicer (07:54)
They basically know what’s going to be in the market and like agriculture, healthcare, automotive, like two, three, four, five years from now, that’s not even released yet. Yeah, sort of.
Jason Niedle (08:03)
You have a little peek into the future, huh?
So Episode 41, we had a gentleman named Jim Kernan from Luxonis. And Luxonis makes a lot of the cameras that feed the data for your data sets. So he was really interesting as well. Now tell me about also KeyLabs.
Maria Greicer (08:20)
Keylabs is our baby. So when we started providing annotations as a service, you do need the platform to do it efficiently. You do need a a powerful tool to create the annotations, to basically capture the human input. So Keylabs was initially created
for in-house use for us to use as our own tool for working on our own project. But then we started, it’s kind of organic growth that we’ll talk about a bit later, I guess. It’s great thing. Like basically we started to get requests for this product to be licensed to our clients independently before we even launched, like before we even thought about it.
So basically our client said, okay, what tool are you using? So it was, we’re like, okay. It was not pretty at the beginning. It actually, was just like very simple, functional user interface for internal use, it doesn’t need to be easy or intuitive. Like people that work for us, our employees know how to use it. So it was just like very like simple, but robust tool, nothing pretty. And people started, the company started to ask to license it,
Jason Niedle (09:02)
I love that.
Maria Greicer (09:28)
for their use. we kind of separated the company and we packaged it. We packaged Keylabs as a separate product that right now you can either have our service as full service, basically the annotation and the annotation tool, or just the tool. So if you have a team in-house or you already have companies you’re working with
you can use the tool separately. So actually that’s a, I would say that’s a great example of demand coming before the product is actually, before the product is created in a way, because in order to package it, like in order to create a separate product, had to of course do lot of development, hire developer, additional developers for like the packaging, make it pretty, make it user friendly. So which is a lot of time, money and effort.
But we already knew when we were doing this effort, like, yes, we have clients waiting in line to get this product and we’re doing this for them. So we know exactly what’s our, like what we’re starting from, like what’s in a way that our revenue, expected revenue is. And it’s not a guess. So I would say that’s just from, I’ve been working in startups for almost like 20 years. I would say that’s the biggest issue
Jason Niedle (10:33)
Mmm.
Maria Greicer (10:42)
many technology companies face is that somebody or group of people, educated people, smart people assume that certain product is going to be amazing and everybody wants it. This is brilliant. We’re doing it right now. And which might be a right assumption, but for a limited number of people. so they put a lot of money and effort and development and creating all this amazing features. There’s like so many features that does everything. It’s like all in one.
Jason Niedle (10:59)
Mm-hmm.
Maria Greicer (11:09)
Like all the this buzzwords and then they release it to the market after like few millions invested in the product and like a couple years of time invested in it and then nobody buys and it’s just like this story is too common and it killed too many companies and it keeps killing companies and I think it’s
kind of my perspective, it’s a completely wrong approach first creating the product and sending it to the market. And my approach, this approach I believe, I’m sure many others have the same approach, first you sell the product, then you create the
Jason Niedle (11:47)
Mm-hmm.
And that’s not always easy to do, but I think in your case, it’s a brilliant application of that theme there where literally the demand was first and then you spun the product out afterwards. So I love that.
Maria Greicer (11:56)
Yeah, yes, exactly.
Jason Niedle (11:58)
So let’s talk growth. How do you track your KPIs? What are the most important things that you’re looking at in terms of growth? And what are you focused on? What’s your goal for this year?
Maria Greicer (12:09)
So first of all, what is growth? That’s the first question. It’s like the revenue or the profit or the number of clients or the number of active clients or yes, or the size of the client or the significance of the service that we deliver. What is considered growth? So let’s say that’s kind of the first.
Jason Niedle (12:23)
⁓ data particles.
Maria Greicer (12:34)
Again, there’s no right or wrong answer here, but that’s my favorite thing. okay, define what do we mean by growth? Because now the company come to us and say like, okay, we want growth. they were your CEO or VP sales at the company and your investors telling you, okay, we need growth. Like, okay, what exactly do you So at least the way I see growth, so like a few aspects to it. First of all, of course, it’s
the locals, the clients that we have, the more the merrier in a way. Second is the total revenue that we receive. And sometimes it’s very not proportional number of clients to the revenue, to the total income. Sometimes it gets from different companies, like in my previous company. Sometimes having one or two clients.
in a way it’s more profitable than having 60.
Jason Niedle (13:23)
Mm-hmm, but maybe more dangerous as well.
Maria Greicer (13:25)
Yes, way more dangerous, but it’s more profitable. So if you want to show pure growth, revenue-wise, then I guess there is no right answer. So many aspects go into it. So how do we measure growth right now? Of course, it’s the number of clients, new clients. It’s retention. It’s very, very important. So, okay, let’s we signed a large contract this year.
for how many years this contract is actually going to be in place, what’s the lifetime value of this client, what are the chances to renewing the contract, what are the chances of upsetting, so it all kind of goes into calculation. Then of course the revenue, revenue per client, revenue per contract, total revenue, like how much we actually make this year, and of course what are our expenses, because this is something actually I see, I try to be very careful of
story that happens again and again and it happens to me few times and different companies including Keymakr like we kind of receive we win a large contract or two or three and we’re like okay great now we should sell like now we should invest back in us.
Let’s hire more people, let’s hire more salespeople, let’s hire more developers because we need developers. Let’s hire more operations because to deliver the service, we need more operations. And then we just like scale up. We kind of, we’re growing too quickly, scaling up too quickly. And what happens if let’s say the client decides to pause or there is for less. I would say last few years with few ups and downs in
economy, like in the global economy, like economy goes up and then COVID hits and everything goes down and that goes up again and then the war breaks in one place and then war breaks in another place, so the global economy is not stable. So kind of taking that into consideration when you’re planning growth and overspending, I would say it’s pretty important and it’s very, I would say in growth wise it’s
It’s important, but it should be very, in my opinion, should be very careful. I would prefer scaling up slowly, but steady instead of just exploding. Then the danger of, exponential growth, essentially, it’s very dangerous because it can kill a company. I saw it killing other companies. It can kill a company very quickly. just have
Jason Niedle (15:36)
Hmm.
Maria Greicer (15:47)
all the spendings and suddenly one of your revenue like on all of your cash flows stops being there and then like okay what you do with this half a million spending per month like what do you do with all those people like how do you cut expenses and then like it just makes the whole operation whole company collapse so like that’s a good thing about Keymakr our strategy here is that we’re very
Yes, we want growth, we don’t want to have too much growth. Essentially, has to be controlled. Yes, it has to be controlled. It has to be steady. And we always try to be as conservative as possible in terms of scaling up and spending.
Jason Niedle (16:19)
Managed growth. ⁓
So what are you doing to reach new people? How do people hear about you?
Maria Greicer (16:35)
Our favorite thing has been, always has been, is conferences. It’s professional conferences. We do go to, let’s say at least like 20 conferences per year across the globe. Now, conferences, we’re in a way lucky,
that we have so much supply of conferences because we work in multiple domains like agriculture, automotive, etc. We literally can pick up any tech conference that talks about AI in any specific domain, go there and find potential clients. So that’s not always the case for everybody. But again, going to conferences in my eye, even from
Jason Niedle (17:07)
Mmm.
Maria Greicer (17:12)
different companies like previous companies I worked with or other businesses, know, conferences tend to be, B2B, I’m talking only about B2B, conferences, professional conferences tend to be number one source of leads. First you get, there’s nothing that replaces human connection. Like when you actually meet the person and you speak with the person and you shake hands and you go to drinks and you spend some time together.
No AI or nothing can replace that. It’s like human connection. And of course, first of all, impression, like you actually have a live person in front of you. You remember them. You want to talk to them. You’re way more likely to do business with a person that you met, than with somebody you never met or just spoke on the phone. Video actually, video helps.
But if you never met, I would say, text messages, emails, that’s kind of at the bottom of the food chain, the least effective. If you spoke with a person on the phone, gets the chances up. If you saw a person, even video calls, that helps. That gets the chances even higher to have business with them. When you met the person, if you met somebody versus you have two suppliers,
one of them you met in person, the other one you did not. You’re more likely to sign up a contract even if it’s more expensive if the one you met in person.
Jason Niedle (18:30)
you have any hints for trade shows or conferences? Like, are you setting up meetings in advance? Are you guys spending your budget on a booth or on events? Like, makes it effective for you?
Maria Greicer (18:40)
So that, that I say really depends, depends on the conference, depends on what we’re trying to achieve from a conference. And one of the things about conferences, yes, it’s great, but it can be super expensive. Like, so like $50,000, 100,000, 200,000, you have some booths at the conference that cost like 400,000 or half a million just for one booth for larger companies. So it’s very, it can be very expensive.
Jason Niedle (19:01)
Yeah.
Maria Greicer (19:05)
Now in a way, we operate as a startup. In a way, though, we’re not a startup already. We’ve been around for a while, like over eight years, But we still try to operate as a startup. So in conferences, we would never, at least our approach, again, it depends on the company’s budget, but to kind of be more conservative. First question is, do we need a booth or we don’t need a booth?
And it’s really depending on the conference and who we are going to meet there. Because some conferences you don’t really need to spend like $10-20,000 on having a booth when you actually achieve more by walking around, by just meeting people or setting up meetings and events. So that’s number one. It doesn’t have to be expensive. Number two, so when you do have a booth for startups especially.
Conferences always have like a special promotions or special programs that you can apply to and it makes that brings the cost down by like something ten times For the same thing if you’re a startup or you have like a cool technology or you have like something interesting It’s not just like another one There are definitely every conference almost every conference offers those specific special programs you have to book for them
Jason Niedle (20:08)
Mm.
Maria Greicer (20:16)
but it can be first of all a huge cost saver when you do have finance programs in apply. And second, it’s great promotion because you get this extra attention because you’re kind of in advance, the conference promotes you as like a cool new product to all the attendees and you’re not even paying for it. So that’s, I would say conference planning and…
No regular staff setting up meetings in advance if possible. Sometimes it’s not possible, but there’s always a prep. There’s always a, you can’t just take a ticket, book a booth and go to a conference. It doesn’t work this way. It’s like collaboration work between marketing, sales and everybody who attends.
So it’s like a collaboration here, but good preparation and collaboration between all the teams, all the people who attend, it’s very, very important.
Jason Niedle (21:04)
So I like to look at constraints in growth because I think the way to growth is to figure out what’s constraining me and what’s stopping me and solve that and then do it again and do it again and soon you have growth, right? So if you looked internally at what you’re doing, what do you think is holding you back from growing faster?
Maria Greicer (21:20)
On our side, so it’s a few factors. First of all, it’s our internal operations. So yes, we provide like we’re a service provider to our high tech companies, but we are in a way a low tech service by itself because we involve a lot of human operations. So to provide training data, it’s basically training data is ground truth.
At least the part that we provide. So we provide the ground truth. Ground truth means we have to have people, actual people, human force for creating this data. People, it’s complicated because you have to hire people, you have to fire people, you have to manage people, you have to make sure people doing their work. So in a way, in our specific case, the human operation, it’s essential. What’s the core of our business? It’s human labeling operation.
but it’s also a bottleneck that prevents us from growing faster. Because again, it’s expensive. Like if we bring somebody in, say we hire 20 or 50 new people, currently we have over 500. So say if we hire like 50 more people, if suddenly we don’t have projects, we still have to pay them, right?
Jason Niedle (22:29)
Mm-hmm.
Maria Greicer (22:30)
So it’s like, okay, like where is this? It’s always like a game in a way. It’s always a juggle. okay, like how many people we need to have in reserve in order to deliver all our obligations to the clients and deliver on time versus where too much, like where do we stop so we don’t kill ourselves by just like over hiring.
but this is the case with all the human operations. That’s difficult. Now, another thing that I find challenging is contracts renewal.
Jason Niedle (23:03)
Mm-hmm.
Maria Greicer (23:04)
And let’s read the pants on the business. Some businesses have contracts for 10 years. In our case, it can be short contract for, let’s say, on demand project, or it can be like a year long engagement or two years or three years or five years on engagement. It really varies. So there’s those different types of engagements that we cater because we work with large organizations, but also startups. so demand for what needs to be done on project
length and budget can vary a lot. So planning, basically planning our operations and recurring revenue, it’s always been a challenge. It’s still a challenge because we don’t, let’s say, if we have like a year long contract, we don’t know what’s going to happen in next year. So, okay, how, like how we’re mitigating this risk.
Like how are we planning our internal operations? So again, we don’t have those people there doing nothing and we pay them salary. If the contract is not renewed, on the other hand, like how do we make sure that the contract is renewed, but it’s not always up to us, right? It’s like what client needs, what their budgets or what their develop, like AI development stage right now. So there’s this, I would say significant
Jason Niedle (24:18)
Mm-hmm.
Maria Greicer (24:22)
chunk of uncertainty that we have to face and plan for and regard all the time and that’s, again, that’s like hard to plan budgets or expand or hire more SaaS people, hire more developers when we don’t know what’s going to happen in terms of our revenue next year. So that’s sort of a block. I would say another bottleneck
Jason Niedle (24:45)
Yeah, and I imagine that almost if you do things right in many companies when you train their models, then there’s nothing more to train for some organizations, right? You’ve trained, you’ve done what needs to be done at some time.
Maria Greicer (24:56)
Yes and no. Usually, a company does not evolve around one model. So if they are attending to specific use case, for example, autonomous driving, it’s not just one model for recognizing traffic signs in the US. It would be a model for recognizing traffic signs in US, Europe, Caribbean, South America, Japan, other Asian countries. So it’s the same model but with different applications. So every application needs training.
Then again, it’s not just this model for traffic science. It’s also model for pedestrian recognition, for road lanes, for asphalt, for the whole bunch of other things. So it’s like never one product. It’s never like one model. Like we train one model and have like a long line of others that needs to be, that needs training data. So that’s in a way for us, it’s a good thing.
And it’s always changing. It’s dynamic.
Jason Niedle (25:51)
So churn is one of the problems, well, not churn, but turnover is one of the built-in problems. So you’re always having to bring in new people. And then I imagine you have a lot of startups and some of them succeed and some of them don’t. So you really just don’t know who’s going to be here in two years from now with the world changing the way it’s changing all the time.
Maria Greicer (26:02)
Yep.
Yeah, actually that’s we get to work with a lot of startups and that’s something that we see sometimes. There’s startup that got funding, a few million dollars. They develop AI technology, which is hot topic right now, and then they just run out of capital and the project dies. So kind of goes back to the first point we discussed.
Jason Niedle (26:25)
Mmm.
Yeah. Is there anything that we should know about AI, anything that’s surprising? You have this little glimpse into the future. What’s kind of surprising or interesting that a lot of people might not know?
Maria Greicer (26:38)
The way I see AI, I know lots of talks about it, that AI is scary, AI is going to take over the world, nobody needs humans anymore. That’s like when I’m talking to somebody, they ask me, what are you doing? work in AI. That’s the response that I usually get.
But I don’t think this is right. I think AI is an amazing thing that’s going to change our life for better right now. And technology is just as good as any technology product. It’s as good as the use. So having the most amazing sophisticated technology that has no use, like, will not, doesn’t take us anywhere. So I think in terms of development and new products,
would say exciting future in front of us. The next couple years, like in any industry, in agriculture, like smart farming, medical. I also work a lot with medical. That’s one of my favorite industries, given my background as well. It’s medical background. So medical is amazing. Things that are developed right now is insane. So you can help
emergency rooms to identify critical cases immediately. Something that before would take a few minutes, hours or any delay in it would cause death essentially. So here we’re looking at technologies that are going to be implemented, already implemented partially, but are going to be implemented even more that save lives, that help enhance human life.
Jason Niedle (27:45)
Hmm.
Maria Greicer (28:04)
Also in medical, for example, elderly care, smart camera, for example, smart cameras in homes where older people live by themselves. Up till now we have those devices that people have to click or do something if something happens. Right now it’s totally autonomous cameras that doesn’t transmit this to anybody because we have to keep people’s privacy private.
But if a person falls or does movements that are not natural, it’s recognized by AI and then help is immediately requested. So again, here it helps to save life. So somebody before that would otherwise get a heart attack alone in the home, and it will be discovered a few days,
after this happened, right now would be prevented immediately by smart technology. So it’s like a lot of life enhancing products coming up. And I personally don’t think we should be scared or weary that machines are going to take over the world because that’s not a machine. just like the product, the machine is just as smart as we make it and as useful as we put it to use.
Jason Niedle (29:12)
Any final words before I let you go here? Any final thoughts?
Maria Greicer (29:15)
I think that’s all. Glad to be here. I’m happy I can share some of my knowledge and experience. And I hope maybe, maybe one final, I hope to see more women in tech industry, especially in sales and product roles. for some, especially in sales, for some reason in tech sales, there’s not that many women and I think women would
Jason Niedle (29:17)
No problem.
No, really-
Maria Greicer (29:41)
do amazing and hope to encourage people to do that.
Jason Niedle (29:45)
I really enjoyed this. Where can our audience find you?
Maria Greicer (29:48)
Well, my LinkedIn, Maria Greicer. My email maria at keymakr.com Always happy to talk at keymakr.
Jason Niedle (29:54)
And Keymakr is
spelled K-E-Y-M-A-K-R.com. K-E-Y-M-A-K-R.com. Maria, thank you so much for being on Beyond SaaS. For the tech leadership out there, we’re committed to growth. We’re dropping episodes twice a week now on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And you can find me, Jason Niedle, at tethos.com. That’s T-E-T-H-O-S.com, where you can grab that hyperscale playbook at tethos.com/podcast.
So you got some value today, please go ahead and share the episode or leave questions or comments. We really appreciate that here. And until next time, this is Beyond SaaS.
